Neuroception and the Evolution of Human Spirit with Kim Barthel (263)

by | Apr 8, 2025 | Brain Science, Episodes, Guest Interviews, Neuroscience, Polyvagal Theory, Trauma | 0 comments

Show Notes

Neuroception helps us sense danger and safety without cognition

In this conversation, Dr. Ann Kelley and Occupational Therapist Kim Barthel explore the conscious evolution of the human spirit, the importance of self-compassion, and the integration of neuroception with therapeutic practices. Through Barthel's book, ‘Conversations with a Rattlesnake,' they dive into the significance of sensory integration and attachment in personal development. Using Porges' “Safe and Sound Protocol”, they touch on how understanding one's own nervous system and the cues of safety can lead to better emotional regulation and connection with not only oneself, but others. Follow along as they discuss the themes of trauma, healing and the science of connection.

“Self-compassion is part of the evolution.” – Kim Barthel

Time Stamps for Neuroception and the Safe & Sound Protocol with Kim Barthel (263)

05:32 Conversations with a rattlesnake: A journey through trauma
19:57 Understanding sensory integration and attachment
33:35 Understanding neuroception and safety
34:30 The role of sound in safety cues
42:06 The mechanism of the safe and sound protocol
55:17 The process of connection and regulation

About our Guest – Kim Barthel, OTR

Kim Barthel is an occupational therapist, speaker, multi-disciplinary teacher, mentor and best-selling author who is active in supporting people in many contexts globally. She is passionate about understanding complex behavior, neurobiology, trauma-sensitive practice, sensory processing, attachment, and mental health. An advanced NDT (Neuro-Developmental Treatment) instructor, Kim has 40+ years of practice in helping people to be their best selves. She is a contributor to a number of textbooks on Pediatric Occupational Therapy, NDT, and Trauma, and in 2019 Kim was honored to receive the Award of Merit from the Canadian Association of Occupational Therapy. Kim’s overall mission is to support the conscious evolution of the human spirit.

Resources for Neuroception and the Safe & Sound Protocol with Kim Barthel (263)

Conversations with a Rattlesnake: Raw and Honest Reflections on Healing and Trauma – Book by Kim Barthel and Theo Fleury

Kim's website – Resources and information

@kimbarthelotr – Kim's Instagram


Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!

Interested in joining our exclusive community? Get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus a totally ad-free private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

Our Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

  • Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout
  • Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's

Please support our sponsors for this episode – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all! 

Coffee alternative powered by mushrooms! Right now, you can get 20% off plus a FREE starter kit when you shop exclusively Piquelife.com/tu

Find the doctor that is right for you, and book an appointment, in person or remotely, that works for your schedule. Go to Zocdoc.com/TU and download the Zocdoc app for FREE


Integrative Attachment Therapy Course Information

Therapists: THIS is our recommended course experience for the most comprehensive training on attachment out there. Use our link for a discount!

Thank you for being on this journey with us! 

Recent Episodes

Bonus – Amplify Your Voice: Reflections on Mental Health & Meaningful Practice (270)

Bonus – Amplify Your Voice: Reflections on Mental Health & Meaningful Practice (270)

Let’s get real about revitalizing the therapy landscape

Ann Kelley and Sue Marriott are back for a one on one episode, and sharing their personal reflections on
mental health, community, and the evolving challenges clinicians face today. From the tension between accessibility and sustainability in therapy, to the influence of corporate models – they discuss the need for creativity in the field. Emphasizing connection, curiosity, and professional growth, they introduce exciting opportunities, updates, and even a new series focused on inclusivity – inviting listeners to find and amplify their unique voice in the mental health space.

read more
Smartphones: The Truth About Their Impact on Mental Health with Dr. Jean Twenge (269)

Smartphones: The Truth About Their Impact on Mental Health with Dr. Jean Twenge (269)

Dr. Ann Kelley is joined by Dr. Jean Twenge to discuss her groundbreaking research on generational differences with a focus on how technology—especially smartphones and social media—has transformed communication, relationships, and mental health. They explore how historical shifts and longer life spans contribute to delayed life milestones and what she calls the “slow life strategy.” Dr. Twenge highlights the alarming rise in anxiety and depression among Generation Z, which is closely linked to increased screen time and reduced face-to-face interactions. Together they discuss practical steps parents can take to support healthier development and social connection. Join our Neuronerd online community www.therapistuncensored.com/join. Shownotes www.therapistuncensored.com/tu269.

read more
Bonus – The 9 Personality Patterns and the Enneagram with Dr. Dan Siegel (267)

Bonus – The 9 Personality Patterns and the Enneagram with Dr. Dan Siegel (267)

Alongside co-host Sue Marriott, Dr. Dan Siegel explores how loss, vulnerability, and connection shape personal growth and healing. He discusses the science of attachment and personality, highlighting nine
adaptive patterns that emerge from non-secure attachment. The conversation also explores how neuroscience sheds light on emotional needs, alongside Siegel’s personal reflections on his own attachment history and path as a professional. Together they unpack how neuroscience, motivation, and community impact therapy. The episode offers practical insights for clinicians, emphasizing a compassionate, non-shaming approach to mental health and the journey toward secure attachment and the feeling of wholeness.

read more
Pleasurable Sex, Gender Queerness & Life Burnout with Dr. Emily Nagoski (259)

Pleasurable Sex, Gender Queerness & Life Burnout with Dr. Emily Nagoski (259)

Dr. Emily Nagoski joins co-host Sue Marriott for a deep and insightful conversation about desire, pleasure, and the impact of societal norms on sexuality. Together they explore the evolving landscape of trans rights and healthcare, emphasizing patient-centered care and the urgent need for societal support. Through her journey as a sex educator, Nagoski advocates for deeper understanding and connection, while also sharing practical approaches to educating young people about gender and sexuality, managing stress, and finding meaning and purpose in life.

read more
Bonus – Disorganized / Unresolved Attachment with Dr. Krista Jordan (258)

Bonus – Disorganized / Unresolved Attachment with Dr. Krista Jordan (258)

This is a sneak peek of our episode with Dr. Krista Jordan – available only on our Premium Supercast and Patreon platforms. For as little as $5/month you can have access to special releases like this one, first-to-know about upcoming events and discounts and an ad-free feed.

Dr. Krista Jordan & co-host Sue Marriott LCSW CGP dive into the messy, fascinating world of the 4th attachment category – disorganized attachment. Through intimate personal stories, they describe how it shows up in therapy, relationships, and everyday life. They explore the Adult Attachment Projective (AAP) and Adult Attachment Interview (AAI), unpacking what is sometimes called disorganized, unresolved, dysregulated, dissociated attachment that can ripple through generations.Learn how dismissive strategies work so well they can stop us from growing, why feedback (and a little distress) is crucial for self-awareness, and how shame and anger are often two sides of the same coin.

read more
The Power of Liberation: Courage, Identity & Growth with Pam Benson Owens (257)

The Power of Liberation: Courage, Identity & Growth with Pam Benson Owens (257)

We’re kicking off February with a powerful conversation with the incredible Pam Benson Owens. Alongside co-host Sue Marriott, they explore what it means to live with purpose, navigate systemic challenges, and find liberation in everyday choices. Pam shares her wisdom on the role of self-care in activism, the courage it takes to engage in difficult conversations, and how fear shows up in DEI work. This episode dives deep into the intersection of personal and organizational growth, touching on themes of vulnerability, belonging, and the evolving landscape of diversity and identity. Sue and Pam also tackle honest conversations about race and privilege, the “messy middle” of personal transformation, and why pacing yourself is essential for long-term impact.

read more
Rediscovering Play for More Secure Connections with Children – and Adults (256)

Rediscovering Play for More Secure Connections with Children – and Adults (256)

Co-host Sue Marriott, with special guests, Tina Payne Bryson and Georgie Wisen-Vincent, discuss the powerful role of play in child development and its therapeutic benefits. Play fosters emotional resilience, strengthens parent-child attachment, and supports positive neuroplasticity. They acknowledge the resistance some parents may feel towards engaging in play, while also providing practical strategies for parents to incorporate into their daily interactions. Learn how embracing play can nurture emotional growth and empower both children and parents in meaningful ways.

read more
Family Estrangement, Spiritual Harm & the Ethics of AI in Therapy with Matthias Barker (255)

Family Estrangement, Spiritual Harm & the Ethics of AI in Therapy with Matthias Barker (255)

Ann and Sue, alongside psychotherapist Matthias Barker, unpack the complexities of parent-child estrangement and the often-overlooked generational gaps that shape how families navigate conflict. Matthias discusses the deep wounds that spiritual harm can leave behind, and also expands into broader themes of spirituality. With the emerging presence of AI, they open the conversation to the ethical challenges of the technology and creating meaningful change, whether in family dynamics or the future of mental health care.

read more

What else do you want to learn today?

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This