Neuroception and the Evolution of Human Spirit with Kim Barthel (263)

by | Apr 8, 2025 | Brain Science, Episodes, Guest Interviews, Neuroscience, Polyvagal Theory, Trauma | 0 comments

Show Notes

Neuroception helps us sense danger and safety without cognition

In this conversation, Dr. Ann Kelley and Occupational Therapist Kim Barthel explore the conscious evolution of the human spirit, the importance of self-compassion, and the integration of neuroception with therapeutic practices. Through Barthel's book, ‘Conversations with a Rattlesnake,' they dive into the significance of sensory integration and attachment in personal development. Using Porges' “Safe and Sound Protocol”, they touch on how understanding one's own nervous system and the cues of safety can lead to better emotional regulation and connection with not only oneself, but others. Follow along as they discuss the themes of trauma, healing and the science of connection.

“Self-compassion is part of the evolution.” – Kim Barthel

Time Stamps for Neuroception and the Safe & Sound Protocol with Kim Barthel (263)

05:32 Conversations with a rattlesnake: A journey through trauma
19:57 Understanding sensory integration and attachment
33:35 Understanding neuroception and safety
34:30 The role of sound in safety cues
42:06 The mechanism of the safe and sound protocol
55:17 The process of connection and regulation

About our Guest – Kim Barthel, OTR

Kim Barthel is an occupational therapist, speaker, multi-disciplinary teacher, mentor and best-selling author who is active in supporting people in many contexts globally. She is passionate about understanding complex behavior, neurobiology, trauma-sensitive practice, sensory processing, attachment, and mental health. An advanced NDT (Neuro-Developmental Treatment) instructor, Kim has 40+ years of practice in helping people to be their best selves. She is a contributor to a number of textbooks on Pediatric Occupational Therapy, NDT, and Trauma, and in 2019 Kim was honored to receive the Award of Merit from the Canadian Association of Occupational Therapy. Kim’s overall mission is to support the conscious evolution of the human spirit.

Resources for Neuroception and the Safe & Sound Protocol with Kim Barthel (263)

Conversations with a Rattlesnake: Raw and Honest Reflections on Healing and Trauma – Book by Kim Barthel and Theo Fleury

Kim's website – Resources and information

@kimbarthelotr – Kim's Instagram


Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!

Interested in joining our exclusive community? Get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus a totally ad-free private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

Our Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

  • Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout
  • Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's

Please support our sponsors for this episode – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all! 

Coffee alternative powered by mushrooms! Right now, you can get 20% off plus a FREE starter kit when you shop exclusively Piquelife.com/tu

Find the doctor that is right for you, and book an appointment, in person or remotely, that works for your schedule. Go to Zocdoc.com/TU and download the Zocdoc app for FREE


Integrative Attachment Therapy Course Information

Therapists: THIS is our recommended course experience for the most comprehensive training on attachment out there. Use our link for a discount!

Thank you for being on this journey with us! 

Recent Episodes

Bonus – You Belong Here: Reframing Imposter Syndrome with Dr. Jill Stoddard (273)

Bonus – You Belong Here: Reframing Imposter Syndrome with Dr. Jill Stoddard (273)

Dr. Ann Kelley is joined by Dr. Jill Stoddard as they unpack the complexities of imposter syndrome—why it shows up, who it impacts most, and how to move through it. Drawing on her expertise in psychological flexibility and values-based living, Dr. Stoddard shares strategies to navigate self-doubt, marginalization, and internalized insecurity. Learn how to reframe discomfort, build a healthier relationship with vulnerability, and use these moments as powerful opportunities for connection and growth. Join our exclusive neuronerd community – TherapistUncensored.com/Join

read more
From Zimbabwe to New York City, Expanding Quality Mental Health Access – the Friendship Bench with Dr. Dixon Chibanda (272)

From Zimbabwe to New York City, Expanding Quality Mental Health Access – the Friendship Bench with Dr. Dixon Chibanda (272)

Grounded in research and lived experience, this conversation invites a rethinking of care—away from over-medicalization and toward more accessible, human-centered approaches. Dixon Chibanda shares the powerful story behind the Friendship Bench, a community-based mental
health model that centers healing in the heart of local communities. He explores how grandmothers—often overlooked in traditional mental health systems—play a vital role in offering care, connection, and wisdom. Dr. Chibanda discusses the barriers to accessing mental health services, the role of storytelling in the healing process, and the global expansion of the Friendship Bench. Grounded in research and lived experience, this conversation invites a rethinking of care—away from over-medicalization and toward more accessible, human-centered approaches. View this episodes shownotes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU271 – Join our exclusive online community at TherapistUncensored.com/Join

read more
What is Real Allyship When it Comes to White Women and Racial Trauma with Dr. Monnica Williams (271)

What is Real Allyship When it Comes to White Women and Racial Trauma with Dr. Monnica Williams (271)

Dr. Monnica Williams alongside Sue Marriott explore the deep psychological toll of racism, focusing on the concept of racial trauma and its cumulative impact on people of color. She highlights the importance of recognizing these experiences within therapeutic settings and the need for diversity in mental health research and practice. The discussion delves into the role of civil courage and meaningful allyship—particularly among white individuals in addressing systemic injustice. Dr. Williams offers insights into the multifaceted nature of activism, the harm caused by microaggressions, and the emotional labor involved in navigating everyday racism. From the fear of law enforcement to the unique challenges faced by white women in activism, Dr. Williams urges practitioners and allies alike to listen deeply, receive feedback openly, and use their privilege to support marginalized communities. Shownotes: www.therapistuncensored.com/TU271 Join online community: www.therapistuncensored.com/join

read more
Bonus – Amplify Your Voice: Reflections on Mental Health & Meaningful Practice (270)

Bonus – Amplify Your Voice: Reflections on Mental Health & Meaningful Practice (270)

Let’s get real about revitalizing the therapy landscape

Ann Kelley and Sue Marriott are back for a one on one episode, and sharing their personal reflections on
mental health, community, and the evolving challenges clinicians face today. From the tension between accessibility and sustainability in therapy, to the influence of corporate models – they discuss the need for creativity in the field. Emphasizing connection, curiosity, and professional growth, they introduce exciting opportunities, updates, and even a new series focused on inclusivity – inviting listeners to find and amplify their unique voice in the mental health space.

read more
Smartphones: The Truth About Their Impact on Mental Health with Dr. Jean Twenge (269)

Smartphones: The Truth About Their Impact on Mental Health with Dr. Jean Twenge (269)

Dr. Ann Kelley is joined by Dr. Jean Twenge to discuss her groundbreaking research on generational differences with a focus on how technology—especially smartphones and social media—has transformed communication, relationships, and mental health. They explore how historical shifts and longer life spans contribute to delayed life milestones and what she calls the “slow life strategy.” Dr. Twenge highlights the alarming rise in anxiety and depression among Generation Z, which is closely linked to increased screen time and reduced face-to-face interactions. Together they discuss practical steps parents can take to support healthier development and social connection. Join our Neuronerd online community www.therapistuncensored.com/join. Shownotes www.therapistuncensored.com/tu269.

read more
Bonus – The 9 Personality Patterns and the Enneagram with Dr. Dan Siegel (267)

Bonus – The 9 Personality Patterns and the Enneagram with Dr. Dan Siegel (267)

Alongside co-host Sue Marriott, Dr. Dan Siegel explores how loss, vulnerability, and connection shape personal growth and healing. He discusses the science of attachment and personality, highlighting nine
adaptive patterns that emerge from non-secure attachment. The conversation also explores how neuroscience sheds light on emotional needs, alongside Siegel’s personal reflections on his own attachment history and path as a professional. Together they unpack how neuroscience, motivation, and community impact therapy. The episode offers practical insights for clinicians, emphasizing a compassionate, non-shaming approach to mental health and the journey toward secure attachment and the feeling of wholeness.

read more
Pleasurable Sex, Gender Queerness & Life Burnout with Dr. Emily Nagoski (259)

Pleasurable Sex, Gender Queerness & Life Burnout with Dr. Emily Nagoski (259)

Dr. Emily Nagoski joins co-host Sue Marriott for a deep and insightful conversation about desire, pleasure, and the impact of societal norms on sexuality. Together they explore the evolving landscape of trans rights and healthcare, emphasizing patient-centered care and the urgent need for societal support. Through her journey as a sex educator, Nagoski advocates for deeper understanding and connection, while also sharing practical approaches to educating young people about gender and sexuality, managing stress, and finding meaning and purpose in life.

read more
Bonus – Disorganized / Unresolved Attachment with Dr. Krista Jordan (258)

Bonus – Disorganized / Unresolved Attachment with Dr. Krista Jordan (258)

This is a sneak peek of our episode with Dr. Krista Jordan – available only on our Premium Supercast and Patreon platforms. For as little as $5/month you can have access to special releases like this one, first-to-know about upcoming events and discounts and an ad-free feed.

Dr. Krista Jordan & co-host Sue Marriott LCSW CGP dive into the messy, fascinating world of the 4th attachment category – disorganized attachment. Through intimate personal stories, they describe how it shows up in therapy, relationships, and everyday life. They explore the Adult Attachment Projective (AAP) and Adult Attachment Interview (AAI), unpacking what is sometimes called disorganized, unresolved, dysregulated, dissociated attachment that can ripple through generations.Learn how dismissive strategies work so well they can stop us from growing, why feedback (and a little distress) is crucial for self-awareness, and how shame and anger are often two sides of the same coin.

read more

What else do you want to learn today?

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This