TU99: Food, The Body, Trauma, & Attachment With Guests Paula Scatoloni & Rachel Lewis-Marlow

by | Jun 27, 2019 | Brain Science, Episodes, Guest Interviews, Personal Growth, Polyvagal Theory, Therapy, Trauma

Show Notes

What if we flipped the script and learned to see our body as a messenger that needs to be heard rather than an obstacle to be conquered when it comes to our relationship with food? When we take physiological perspective, we learn that the body has much to say not only about food but also emotional regulation and our basic human needs for attachment and defense.

Using the sensory information, attachment system and working with defenses.

Who are our guests on this episode, you ask? Well here ya go, they are pretty bad-ass and they were interviewed by Dr. Ann Kelley:

Paula Scatoloni, LCSW, CEDS, SEP

Paula is a somatic-based psychotherapist, Certified Eating Disorders Specialist, and Somatic Experiencing™ practitioner in Chapel Hill, NC. She has worked in the field of eating disorders for over two decades. Paula served as the Eating Disorder Coordinator at Duke University CAPS for nine years and has taught extensively on the etiology and treatment of eating disorders through workshops, professional trainings, and conferences. She co-developed the first intensive outpatient program for eating disorders in the U.S with Dr. Anita Johnston. She is the co-founder of the Embodied Recovery model and the Embodied Recovery Institute in Durham, NC.

Rachel Lewis-Marlow, MS, EdS, LPC, LMBT

Rachel is a somatically integrative psychotherapist, dually licensed in counseling and therapeutic massage and bodywork. She is a Certified Advanced Practitioner in Sensorimotor Psychotherapy and has advanced training and 25+ years of experience in diverse somatic therapies including Craniosacral Therapy, Energetic Osteopathy, Oncology massage and Aromatherapy. Rachel She is the co-founder of the Embodied Recovery model and the Embodied Recovery Institute in Durham, NC. provides ongoing training and supervision to clinical and support staff in the programmatic implementation of the Embodied Recovery model. In her private practice in Chapel Hill, NC, Rachel works with trauma, eating disorders, and dissociative disorders.

 

TU99 Shownotes (are these not awesome or what? Patrons help us be able to do this, thank you you know who you are.)

Typical Treatment Model

Bio-Psychosocial model

  • Bio: has been usage of pharmacology, re-feeding, nutritional rehabilitation, and yoga
  • Psycho part has been education about emotion and emotional tolerance, dialectical behavioral therapy, supportive therapies to support emotional processing and cognitive distortions, cognitive behavioral treatment to address the distortions, and then try to change the behaviors by changing the cognitions,
  • Social part: family and dynamics around having a place of belonging and one’s sense of belonging in the world, the culture, & the family
  • Usually a treatment team: dietician, a therapist, family therapist, a psychiatrist, a physician

Typical View of Recovery

  • Goal: to get somebody to eat a prescribed amount of nutritional food in order to achieve a range of BMI or body size or shape
  • eat it in what we call a normative style, which is a very relative term
  • Focus is on how behaviors are a response to an attitude towards the body itself

What’s Missing?

  • Being curious about what the body is saying and expressing through the eating disorder behaviors

Shifting the Perspective: The Embodied Recovery Model

The Embodied Recovery Model is SomatoPsycho-Social. It expands the role of the body to include anatomy, physiology, kinesiology, movement, and posture.

The 5 Core Principles of the Embodied Recovery Model

The 5 Core Principles facilitate the intersection between somatic organization, subjective experience of self, and basic human needs for attachment and defense.

Shifting from bio-psycho-social model to somato-psycho-social model.
Directly resourcing the body so that it becomes a resource in recovery rather than an obstacle to recovery.
Collaborate with the body at the physiological level to support the infrastructures that govern emotional regulation, memory, and sustained healing.
Shifting the focus from what people with eating disorders are saying about their bodies to what their bodies are saying about what it means to be alive (defense structures) and what they need to thrive (attachment system).
  • subjective experience meaning it’s not so much what people think about themselves but it’s actually the experience of the body and through the body
Redefining recovery as an experience of embodiment rather than the absence or reduction of eating disorder symptoms.
  • the idea that when we’re actually working with our body, and we know how to dialogue with it then, it’s going to support us and our relationship with food.

 Somatic Scaffolding

  •  Distorted body image:
  • what’s happening is that the visual image of the body through the eyes and the interoceptive message (signals from the body inside) don’t match up.
  • the visual information that they’re getting is impacted by the internal sensations they’re having and thoughts attempt to make sense of that
  • really loud internal signals translate to interoceptively feeling huge because the internal noise is huge
  • Embodiment: an intersection of our own awareness and our physical container-where our consciousness and our physical body intersect
  • Eating disorder behaviors are a window into places where we are not a fully embodied
  • 3 main areas examined in Somatic Scaffolding: the information (Sensory System), what’s being processed (Attachment System), and how it’s being processed (Defense System).

Sensory Integration System

  • Not working optimally due to genetics or trauma (generational, gestational, birth, childhood, etc).
  • Sensitivity:
  • Someone who is highly sensitive to textures, smells, sound, etc. experiences an internal experience of threat, which impacts the ventral vagal system
  • Vagal system gets overloaded and overwhelmed and starts to shut down. Then we go into sympathetic or dorsal states, which do not give support for effective ingestion, digestion, and elimination.
  • Have to pay attention to what helps resource sensory system

(Learn more about this in TU93 and TU94 on Polyvagal Theory)

Attachment System

  • the relational dynamics that build the capacity for attachment (See TU 59, 60, & 61 for more info on different attachment styles)
  • is illustrated in our basic developmental movement patterns of yield, push, reach, grasp, and pull that exist not just involuntary movement but in the primitive reflexes cellular movements
  • the expansion and contraction movements build the capacity to connect in attachment and disconnect in our acts of defense
  • Learning to yield
  • yield – the perfect, relaxed state where you’re fully who you are in relationship with something else

Being able to embody that phase of action, that rest, is an important action. It’s not the absence of something it is the presence of something, right. And when we can do that that is an essential part of the cycle of ingestion and digestion. It helps us know enough I’m done. I can just finishit supports this capacity of I’m enough there’s enough I’ve had enough.

Defensive defensive system – the impact of trauma

  • trauma – something that is fundamentally impactful to us on a foundational level
  • Is the impact truncating our attachment system that brings us into connection, or is it truncating our ability to defend ourselves and separate?
  • Is a defense system intact or was there something that has been incomplete and is still trying to resolve

“If we haven’t been able to fully complete a defensive action, our nervous system is dysregulated and isn’t going to support ingestion, digestion and elimination.”-Rachel Lewis-Marlow, Co-founder of The Embodied Recovery Institute

  • we don’t want to try to get someone to engage in an attachment action when the reason that their body is deregulated is because it hasn’t been able to complete a defensive action.
Window of tolerance
  • A robust window of tolerance enables us to identify things like:
  • when we’re hungry & when we’re full
  • regulate body temperature
  • regulator physiological & emotional state
  • reach out to others when in distress
  • move from sympathetic arousal to parasympathetic with ease and flow
  • Smaller window of tolerance
  • caused by something that happened with the primitive reflexes
  • trauma physiology running the system because of birth trauma or attachment deficits
  • we live outside this window most of the time and develop self-protective strategies

“[These strategies] can look like anything we do in order to feel more regulated. And with eating disorders, what’s happened is that those behaviors are the only choice they have in order to come back in the window.” -Paula Scataloni, Co-founder of The Embodied Recovery Institute

Effective treatment

  • looks at how the attachment dynamic manifests in all the different layers of organization, and how does each member of the treatment team address it.
  • training the nervous system to do what it didn’t get to do in the first three years of life (Learn more about Neuroplasticity in TU40  and Neurofluency in TU89)
  • Ensuring that the individual’s body has the physiological and neurobiological capacity to handle the treatment strategies first
  • Encompasses all elements of somatic scaffolding
  • Brings in and examines the attachment, defensive, regulatory, and co-regulatory capacities of the entire family system

“If we just treat and help the client develop regulatory capacity but the family system is not supported, then we’re just helping them in the office and then sending them out into a system that has struggles.” – Paula Scataloni, Co-founder of the Embodied Recovery Institute

Resources:

Embodied Recovery Institute Website

Understanding The Connection Between, Eating, Attachment, And Trauma By Paula Scatoloni, LCSW, CEDS, SEP

Trauma-Informed Approaches to Eating Disorders

Dr. Walter Kaye’s website

Bonnie Bainbridge Cohen’s website

This is the heart of Therapist Uncensored – the reason we started this podcast. We are so honored to be able to bring this kind of excellent content to you guys and to help you understand yourself and the ones you love.

Like this one? You may be interested in this one, too.

TU93: Polyvagal Theory in Action – The Practice of Body Regulation With Dr Stephen Porges(Opens in a new browser tab)

If you appreciate this work you can help it continue by becoming a Patron – ie. a super fan, or what we call Neuronerds. We are approaching our 100th episode (can you believe it!!!) and we are having special offers up until our 100th episode!  Click here to sign up for as little as $5 a month.

You can also help us by subscribing on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify or Podbean to name a few and by leaving a review so others can discover this cool science. Remember, sharing is caring!

Tweet

Recent Episodes

Nontoxic Guide to Healthy Living with Dr. Aly Cohen (290)

Nontoxic Guide to Healthy Living with Dr. Aly Cohen (290)

Dr. Aly Cohen and co-host Dr. Ann Kelley discuss the often-overlooked importance of drinking water quality, the impact of environmental toxins on health, and the connection between gut health and mental well-being. Dr. Cohen highlights the alarming rise of autoimmune diseases and the role of hormones and chemicals in our health. Learn practical, manageable ways to reduce toxin exposure, while exploring how nutrition, lifestyle choices, education, and community support play a vital role in empowering people to take control of their health.

read more
Celebrating 10 Years of TU: Growth, Reflections & the Future (289)

Celebrating 10 Years of TU: Growth, Reflections & the Future (289)

In this special 10-year anniversary episode, Sue and Ann reflect on a decade of Therapist Uncensored – how it began, how it’s changed, and how the relationships formed have deepened along the way. They share candidly about the influence from our listeners in keeping them curious, accountable, and grounded, as well as the ways their own thinking has evolved through conversations with leading experts and thoughtful audience feedback. Together they explore the joys and tensions of teaching in the mental health space, including the importance of humility, questioning long-held assumptions, and recognizing the limits of any single perspective. This episode is both a celebration and a recommitment – to inclusivity, to amplifying diverse voices, and to ongoing learning in a field that is constantly evolving. And above all, it’s a heartfelt thank-you to the community that has made the last ten years possible. View the full show notes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU289

read more
In Each Other’s Care: Building & Sustaining Healthy Relationships with Stan Tatkin – Replay – (288)

In Each Other’s Care: Building & Sustaining Healthy Relationships with Stan Tatkin – Replay – (288)

Conflict in relationships is inevitable – find out the ins and outs of repair for healthy relationships.

We are back with relationship expert, Dr. Stan Tatkin to explore the inner workings of relationships from a biological and societal perspective, and his new book, In Each Other’s Care. All humans are complicated creatures and if we spend enough time with each other, it’s going to get tense.  That part is OK, but what happens after arguing disconnection or tension is what really matters.

read more
Trailblazers in Love: Understanding & Advocating for the LGBTQ+ Community with Jeff Lutes – Replay – (286)

Trailblazers in Love: Understanding & Advocating for the LGBTQ+ Community with Jeff Lutes – Replay – (286)

Replay from our 2024 episode – this is a special conversation between co-host Sue Marriott and special guest Jeff Lutes. Both members of the LGBTQ+ community, this discussion dives into raising families, the evolution of the community, allyship, gender, and the importance of advocacy. While there has been some progress, the LGBTQ+ community still actively faces discrimination. Whether you’re a practicing therapist with clients in the community or have LGBTQ-identifying loved ones, this episode is for you. Through a personal and professional lens, this conversation offers new perspectives and shines a light on the significance of staying educated and being an active voice.

read more
Mind, Body, Heart, Spirit: Embodying Liberation Psychology with Dr. Shena Young – Replay – (285)

Mind, Body, Heart, Spirit: Embodying Liberation Psychology with Dr. Shena Young – Replay – (285)

Replay – Join co-host Sue Marriott and Dr. Shena Young as they dive into liberation psychology and the conflict between intuition and the traditional European model of psychology. Dr. Shena highlights embodying a holistic approach to help heal traumas and deeply root us in our most authentic selves. Whether through connections with nature or the exploration of ancestral traditions, this discussion is enriched with various opportunities to reconnect and liberate our mind, body, heart, and spirit.

read more
Family Estrangement: The Space Between Love & Self-Protection with Dafna Lender (284)

Family Estrangement: The Space Between Love & Self-Protection with Dafna Lender (284)

Dr. Ann Kelley is joined LIVE from Psychotherapy Networker with Dafna Lender, to explore the complex dynamics of parent-child estrangement. Focusing on the emotional and psychological impacts of cutting off family relationships, together they highlight the cultural influences that contribute to these estrangements, the therapeutic perspectives on navigating such situations, and the importance of empathy and boundaries in managing family dynamics. This conversation is about learning to hold both empathy and boundaries – understanding why someone might step away, and how to stay grounded and compassionate in the process. It’s an honest look at the heartbreak, the healing, and the hope that can emerge when families face difficult truths. View the full episode shownotes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU284

read more
Autism in Polyvagal Terms with Dr. Sean Inderbitzen (283)

Autism in Polyvagal Terms with Dr. Sean Inderbitzen (283)

Join host Sue Marriott and guest Dr. Sean Inderbitzen – an autistic psychotherapist and advocate for neurodiversity – as he shares his powerful personal and professional journey in understanding autism. Together, they explore the evolution of autism diagnosis, the intersections between attachment and neurodivergence, and how polyvagal theory can both illuminate and complicate the autistic experience. Dr. Inderbitzen offers insights on self-diagnosis, identity formation, and what truly person-centered therapy looks like for autistic individuals. This conversation highlights the central role of trust, safety, and authentic connection in helping neurodivergent clients thrive. You can view the full shownotes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU283.

read more
Saving Relationships in a Polarized World: Bill Doherty on Citizen Therapists & Political Healing (281)

Saving Relationships in a Polarized World: Bill Doherty on Citizen Therapists & Political Healing (281)

Dr. Ann Kelley sits down with Dr. Bill Doherty to explore the idea of “Citizen Therapists” and how therapists — and all of us — can help bridge divides in a polarized world. Together, they dive into discernment counseling for couples on the brink of divorce, the groundbreaking work of Braver Angels in fostering dialogue across political differences, and the skills we all need for hard but healing conversations. This conversation highlights the power of curiosity, respectful boundaries, and understanding – whether in our closest relationships or across society. View the full episode show notes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU281

read more
Bonus – Harnessing “Genius Energy”: The Art of Wise Effort for Growth with Dr. Diana Hill (280)

Bonus – Harnessing “Genius Energy”: The Art of Wise Effort for Growth with Dr. Diana Hill (280)

Ann Kelley and Diana Hill dive into the concept of wise effort and its impact on how we manage our energy in both personal and professional life. They explore the difference between life force energy and anxiety, the role of emotional sensitivity, and why community resilience matters. Diana shares insights on how to wisely channel your “genius energy,” break free from stuck patterns, and cultivate compassionate connections that support growth and balance. Listen to the full episode at TherapistUncensored.com/TU280

read more
Why Diets Don’t Work—and What to Do Instead with Judith Matz (277)

Why Diets Don’t Work—and What to Do Instead with Judith Matz (277)

Dr. Ann Kelley and expert Judith Matz unpack the complex relationship between dieting, emotional eating, body image, and weight stigma. Together they challenge conventional views on weight and health, emphasizing that fitness matters more than the number on the scale, and explores why most diets fail both psychologically and physiologically. They also cover the historical roots of fatphobia, the dangers of weight
bias in healthcare, and the rise of weight loss drugs like Ozempic. Judith highlights the importance of attuned eating, informed consent, and compassionate care, offering a weight-inclusive approach to healing our relationship with food and body. View full episode shownotes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU277

read more
Feel It to Heal It: The Science of Interoception with Rebecca Kase (274)

Feel It to Heal It: The Science of Interoception with Rebecca Kase (274)

Sue Marriott is joined by Rebecca Kase to explore how understanding the nervous system—especially the
concept of interoception—can support healing from trauma. Rebecca shares her personal story as a survivor and highlights the importance of creating safety, tuning into the body’s internal signals, and approaching somatic work with compassion. Together, they unpack how interoception differs from general perception, why it matters in therapy, and how small, gradual steps can help rebuild connection with the body. View full shownotes at TherapistUncensored.com/TU274.

read more

What else do you want to learn today?

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This