Navigating Racial Trauma & Identity with Gliceria Pérez & Debra Chatman-Finley Part 1 (SRIW Series, Ep 2, 203)

by | May 2, 2023 | Current Events, In The News, & Pop Culture, Episodes, Guest Interviews, Race, racism, Therapy, Trauma | 0 comments

Show Notes

Secure Relating in an Insecure World (SRIW) Series episode #2.

 

Debra Chatman-Finley LPC and Gliceria Pérez LCSW highlight their similarities and differences of being BIPOC women in the United States and encourage an open discussion about racism in our institutions. As they reflect on their careers and experiences, they provide perspectives on how they have navigated their identity and health amidst microaggressions and help us unravel the whitewashing of their cultures. From corporate America to working in child protective services, this discussion is full of painful yet common experiences of discrimination, intimidation, and blatant inequality against people of color – including in “safe” mental health spaces.

“Being authentic is the key piece in working with people of color – because of our intergenerational traumas and all of the racism – we've had to learn how to detect whether we're gonna be safe or not.” – Gliceria Pérez

Time Stamps for Authentically BIPOC: Racial Trauma Part 1 

1:32 – Gliceria’s background

5:03 – Debra’s background

11:12 – Gliceria’s anecdote about racial discrimination while working at CPS

13:12 – Debra’s experience with racism in a corporate setting

23:27 – Debra’s catalyst for switching to private practice

28:44 – How microaggressions affect your sense of self

30:49 – Understanding colorization

33:35 – Similarities and differences of experiences as a POC

43:31 – The importance of working on your racial identity

44:35 – Microaggressions in Everyday Life

50:50 – “Your story is as much in the room as your client”

Resources for Authentically BIPOC: Racial Trauma Part 1 
Therapy Wisdom – Online Training
Trauma, PTSD & DisassociationCertified Program
BIPOCINGtherapists@gmail.com – Contact Information
SEE THE READING LIST BELOW
About Our Guests – Debra Chatman-Finley, LPC & Gliceria Pérez, LCS

Debra Chatman- Finley is a Licensed Professional Counselor and National Board-Certified Counselor in private practice in Montclair, NJ. She is an Adjunct professor at New York University where she teaches Racial and Social Micro Aggression in Clinical Practice. She is the former Director of Clinical Services for a domestic violence agency, that provides counseling services for domestic violence victims. Debra earned her bachelor’s degree in Psychology from Seton Hall University and her Master’s degree in Counseling Psychology from the College of Saint Elizabeth. She is also a graduate and former Associate Faculty at the Multicultural Family Institute. Debra is trained in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) and received her Certification in Traumatic Stress from the Trauma Center at the Justice Resource Institute in Boston, Mass. Debra’s study in traumatic stress strengthened her desire to integrate trauma and racial justice. She has devoted much of her practice and studies to the impact of race in the therapeutic process and the effects of racial trauma on POC, specifically, African American women, and parenting. Debra has also facilitated numerous workshops such as Racism, Culture, and Dissociation, Being BIPOPC: The Ongoing Challenges of Visibility vs Invisibility, Wounded Parenting: The Intersection of Complex and Racial Trauma in Parents of Color, A Therapist Path to Exploring Implicit Bias and Racial Trauma, Micro-Aggressions In Clinical Practice, Unmasking Race With Interracial Couples, Making the Invisible Visible, Beyond 20/20Vision: Examining Racism Through Trauma Lens. Debra and her colleague are in the process of writing about their non-Eurocentric facilitation of a support Group for Women of Color. She also provides Clinical consultation for BIPOC Clinicians around issues of race and trauma as well as other clinical concerns.

Gliceria Pérez is a bilingual trauma-focused therapist who is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with a Master of Social Work degree from Fordham University Graduate School of Social Service. She has over 30 years of experience in social work fields of mental health, trauma, domestic violence, adoption, immigration, and child abuse/neglect. Gliceria has provided case management and therapeutic services to immigrant children, adolescents, and adults in various community settings, in-home, and schools. She is committed to providing high-quality therapeutic services with a social justice perspective. Gliceria maintains a private practice in New Jersey where she works passionately with Black, Indigenous People of Color as well as other individuals/communities who have suffered from mental health issues (depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc.) in addition to racial trauma. Before becoming a therapist, Gliceria was a Director of Residential Services at a domestic violence program where she worked collaboratively to improve the services to include underserved communities. Since 2015, Gliceria has been an Adjunct Faculty at New York University Silver School of Social Work where she teaches Racial and Social Class Microaggressions in Clinical Practice. Gliceria is trained in Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR) and has completed the Certificate Program in Traumatic Stress Studies at JRI (Boston, MA), the Certificate Program at the Multicultural Family Institute Program, and the second level of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy for Trauma Program at the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (New York, NY). She’s in the process of completing the third level of Janina Fisher’s Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) Program. Gliceria has facilitated workshops/presentations which include: “Being BIPOC: The Ongoing Challenges of Visibility and Invisibility,” “A Therapist Path for Exploring Implicit Bias and Racial Trauma,” “Adelantar La Raza/Advance the Race: An Afro-Cuban American Experience,” “Micro-aggressions: Making the Invisible Visible,” and “Wounded Parenting: The Intersections of Complex and Racial Trauma in Parents of Color.” Gliceria is in the process of co-writing a book with Debra Chatman on their non-Eurocentric facilitation of a support group for Women of Color.

 

Give to Mental Health Liberation, TU's charity of choice

 

Articles & Books Recommended by Debra & Gliceria 

Anderson, C. and Gibson, P. (2016). White rage: the unspoken truth of our racial divide. Bloomsbury  USA.

Degruy, J. (2018). Posttraumatic slave syndrome: America’s legacy of enduring injury and healing.  Joy Degruy Publications Inc.

DiAngelo, R. (2021).  Nice Racism: how progressive white people perpetuate racial harm. Penguin Books.

Fisher, J. (2017). Healing the fragmented selves of trauma survivors: overcoming internal self-alienation. Routledge.

Niemann et al. (2020). Presumed incompetent II: race, class, power and resistance of women in academiaUtah State University Press

Gutiérrez, N.Y. (2022). The pain we carry: healing from complex PTSD for people of color. New Harbinger Publications.

Hardy, K.V. (2023). Racial Trauma: clinical strategies and techniques for healing invisible wounds.  W.W. Norton & Company.

Hardy, K.V. (2022). The enduring, invisible, and ubiquitous centrality of whiteness implications for clinical practice and beyond.  W.W. Norton & Company.

Heiman, M. (2022). Learning to live in harmony with ourselves A primer for trauma survivors & those who dissociate. Mermaid Publisher.

Menakem, R. (2017). My grandmother’s hands: racialized trauma and the pathway to mending our hearts and bodies. Penguin Books.

Saad, L. (2020). Me and my white supremacy: how to recognize your privilege, combat racism and change the world. Quercus. 

Sue et al. (2020). Microaggressions in Everyday Life.  John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Click here to view the Racial Trauma Pt 1 Transcript

We support mental health access to those traditionally left out of mainstream healthcare and use a portion of the income we receive from corporate sponsors to do just that!  We can only do that with the help of our Patrons – joining as a TU Neuronerd Podsquad premium subscriber, you support this mission and get a dedicated ad-free feed plus occasional very cool and unique study opportunities, reading groups and unique surprises!  We invite you to join our community. Click here to join! 

We are a Supporter, please be one, too!

Mental Health Liberation is our charity of choice – please consider giving whatever you can to support mental health access for those traditionally left behind and support training for BIPOC therapists


Support the show by supporting our partners and the sponsors of today's episode! 

 AG1 is Ann and Sue's go-to once-a-day drink that delivers all the basics of important vitamins, minerals, and probiotics. Go to www.athleticgreens.com/therapistuncensored or CLICK HERE.

 

Get 20% OFF @honeylove with promo code Unlocked at https://www.honeylove.com/TU #honeylovepod

 

Go to Neurohacker.com/TU for 70% off or use the code TU at checkout

 

Recent Episodes

Internal Family Systems (IFS), Neuroplasticity and Attachment with Dr. Frank Anderson – REPLAY (214)

Internal Family Systems (IFS), Neuroplasticity and Attachment with Dr. Frank Anderson – REPLAY (214)

We aren’t one thing and getting to know our different parts is an effective technique to deepen healing. These “parts” are metaphorical “little beings” that live in our minds and manifest into physical or emotional reactions from traumatic events. Dr. Frank Anderson has spent decades of his life studying these parts and sharing his findings to help others utilize built-in resources like their “self-energy” to navigate their own traumas. Join us as Sue Marriott and Dr. Anderson weave together psycho-pharmacology, trauma, neuroscience, attachment, and internal family systems. More at www.therapistuncensored.com/episodes

read more
Clarity, Healing & Purpose is Less Than a Minute Away, the Power of Awe with Jake Eagle (213)

Clarity, Healing & Purpose is Less Than a Minute Away, the Power of Awe with Jake Eagle (213)

The idea of adding 30 minutes of extra meditation to our already busy schedules can feel overwhelming – but Jake Eagle has dedicated years to his research and found the mindfulness loophole. Awe is an incredibly powerful tool that can over time help us rewire our brains and build security within. Eagle is here to prove that awe is not only meant to be found in grand moments like standing at the top of a mountain or hearing your favorite musician live – but in the tiny fragments of our everyday life. Awe is accessible to us each day, and in this episode, Dr. Ann Kelley and Jake Eagle explore strategies like the “A Method” to incorporate mindfulness into our daily routines. These methods can help to ease the tension of the autopilot mode in our brains, reduce inflammation throughout the body, and equip us with the tools to have deeper, more meaningful connections. Find more at www.therapistuncensored.com/213 and join our Neuronerd community at www.therapistuncensored.com/join.

read more
In Each Other’s Care: Building & Sustaining Healthy Relationships with Stan Tatkin (212)

In Each Other’s Care: Building & Sustaining Healthy Relationships with Stan Tatkin (212)

Applying the relational sciences to real life is what this podcast is all about – and today’s guest is an expert in this area. We’ve invited Stan Tatkin to return for a discussion on secure relating and healthy interdependence. All humans are complicated creatures and if we spend enough time with each other, it’s going to get tense.  That part is OK, but what happens after arguing, disconnection or tension is what really matters. www.therapistuncensored.com/212. Join our Neuronerd Community for unique study opportunites at www.therapistuncensored.com/join.

read more
You Are Kenough: Liz Plank joins to unpack the Barbie Movie, Secure Relating, Gender Roles & Patriarchy (211) Bonus Episode

You Are Kenough: Liz Plank joins to unpack the Barbie Movie, Secure Relating, Gender Roles & Patriarchy (211) Bonus Episode

The Barbie movie has sparked great controversy so we invited journalist Liz Plank to discuss. Some are burning their Barbie’s and calling it “anti-man” while others view it as a strategic call out to the challenges both men and women face on a regular basis. We’ve learned to view the world through a patriarchal lens, so when it’s flipped only then can we see how those in power mistreat those who aren’t.  This is pro-anyone wanting secure relating and mutuality – all genders welcome!  

Ann and Sue are joined by Liz Plank to dive into the symbolism of the Barbie movie and how it applies to real life and secure relating. Listen now to explore patriarchy, masculinity, and the hierarchies of our society – and important steps we can take to build security through vulnerability for a more inclusive world.

read more
Working with Attachment Trauma Using Lessons from the AAP, Failed Mourning, Disorganized/Dysregulated Attachment with Dr. Carol George (210)

Working with Attachment Trauma Using Lessons from the AAP, Failed Mourning, Disorganized/Dysregulated Attachment with Dr. Carol George (210)

Sue Marriott and Dr. George explore her inspiration for writing her new book, tips for applying the information in a clinical setting, as well as deeper dives into concepts like failed mourning and the relationship with dysregulated attachment. With her decades of research, Dr. George offers thorough insights into the world of attachment, trauma, and building security.

read more
Secure Attachment & Recognizing Secure States of Mind with Ann & Sue (208)

Secure Attachment & Recognizing Secure States of Mind with Ann & Sue (208)

We’ve covered the different protection and connection strategies – preoccupied (red on the spectrum), dismissing (blue on the spectrum), and unresolved (tie-dye), but today’s episode is all about what secure attachment actually looks like in daily life. You’ve experienced the continuum from red, blue, or even tie-dye, but how do you know when you’re in your green? A securely attached system doesn’t mean you’re never upset – it’s about having the ability to stay engaged while you have big feelings.  In this episode, Ann and Sue discuss what this can look like conversationally, conditions that promote a secure base in parenting, and how to check in with yourself and deepen your connection with others.

read more
Healing Intergenerational and Ancestral Trauma with Linda Thai (Series SRIW, Ep 5, 206)

Healing Intergenerational and Ancestral Trauma with Linda Thai (Series SRIW, Ep 5, 206)

Linda Thai shares her journey of self-discovery as she navigates her own identity in the aftermath of unrecognized transgenerational trauma. She has dedicated her life to building secure relations within herself and her roots, and provides body-oriented healing using sheds light on the reality of unraveling transgenerational traumas. Through her various healing strategies, she reclaims the unresolved ancestral grief and trauma in her lineage and inspires others to look at our colonized systems through a different lens.

read more
Let’s talk about it: A Pathway for Conversations & Meaningful Change on Climate with Dr. Anna Graybeal (Series SRIW, Ep 4, 205)

Let’s talk about it: A Pathway for Conversations & Meaningful Change on Climate with Dr. Anna Graybeal (Series SRIW, Ep 4, 205)

Dr. Ann Kelley and Dr. Anna Graybeal discuss the necessary steps to building security and embracing tough conversations within our communities. This conversation takes a scientific and therapy-based approach to guide us toward the big emotions around these topics and equips us with the tools to cope with uncertainties, and an opportunity to learn how to harness healthy discussions around the climate crisis. When we can address the resistance within ourselves, we can use that as fuel to unite and heal our planet, our well-being, and our relationships.

read more
Racial Trauma: Challenges to Traditional Therapy, Part 2 of 2 (SRIW Series, Ep 3, 204)

Racial Trauma: Challenges to Traditional Therapy, Part 2 of 2 (SRIW Series, Ep 3, 204)

This a continuation of our previous discussion with Gliceria Pérez & Debra Chatman-Finley where we explore other lasting effects of racial trauma. From the challenges of parenting with an unresolved trauma history to navigating day-to-day as a person of color, they use group therapy as an opportunity to make space for women to vocalize their pain and build community. Gliceria and Debra share personal stories and real-life examples of microaggressions and discrimination and offer insightful ways white individuals can acknowledge their privilege and cultivate an inclusive community.

read more
Intergenerational Conversation on Climate with a Young Adult Homesteader (Secure Relating in an Insecure World, new series) Ep.202

Intergenerational Conversation on Climate with a Young Adult Homesteader (Secure Relating in an Insecure World, new series) Ep.202

Finding and maintaining connection and a sense of security in times of fear and general chaos is THE ultimate challenge.  This is a very special episode – co-hosts Dr. Ann Kelley and Sue Marriott are joined by 24-year-old homesteader Mason Marriott-Voss, to discuss navigating big generational differences and re-building a sense of security in an uncertain world. This is the first of the new series, Secure Relating in an Insecure World. See the resource-filled show notes for today’s episode at www.therapistuncensored.com/202.

read more

What else do you want to learn today?

Get Your Modern Attachment-Regulation Spectrum (MARS)Bundle

3 videos, 3 handouts, and 7 podcast episodes to get you started on your path toward secure relating.

Success! Please check your inbox to confirm your subscription and access your starter pack.

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This