TU126 – What Do We Mean by Modern Attachment? Sue Marriott & Ann Kelley Discuss

by | Jul 23, 2020 | Attachment, Brain Science, Emotional Intelligence, Episodes, modern attachment regulation spectrum, Neuroscience, Parenting, Relationships | 0 comments

Show Notes

Bring attachment science to real-life, the Modern Attachment – Regulation Spectrum (and more)

These notes (not the image itself) were updated and added to June 2021.

Pausing the riches of the guest interviews, Ann Kelley & Sue Marriott are back to discuss what has changed in the attachment field.  They share what makes it modern attachment, anyway, review the science, and discuss their Modern Attachment-Regulation Spectrum (MARS).  They also cover best practices for getting through online therapy. Learn more at Therapist Uncensored www.therapistuncensored.com and get full shownotes here.

This episode references the Modern Attachment Regulation Spectrum created by Therapist Uncensored.  Find out more about that in Episode 31 below.

TU31: Attachment on a Spectrum – Navigating Adult Insecurity and Security

Episode 126 Show Notes:  Why learn attachment theory?

  • Backed by over 70 years of clinical research in animals and people, founded and organized originally by seminal scholars like John Bowlby, Mary Main, Mary Ainsworth, Pat Crittenden, and a BOATLOAD of other researchers and clinicians working on developing and fine-tuning attachment science.
  • At its core, attachment theory is the study of how the child attaches to the primary caregiver and how those experiences shape the child’s development
  • Often this gets lumped together with a gendered understanding of the world, but it’s a totally gender-neutral science. Anyone can be or become a primary caregiver, even if the primary parent is often referred to as the mother.  Also, much of the science surrounds mothers rather than fathers and non-traditional families, culturally-imbued Western notions of parenting, but more on that at another time.

What is Modern Attachment?

  • Attachment research started in developmental psychology then expanded into many different complementary fields of research.  Basically it went from looking at infants and toddlers, then dyads, then adults, then adult dyads, and now informing adults with multiple partners, groups and communities.  Each perspective varies a bit but eventually coalesce to create a coherent and validated picture of the importance of early relationships in our adult relational lives.
  • Briefly, the first phase of attachment science included the probably familiar 3 then the 4 quadrants – preoccupied, dismissing, secure and disorganized/unresolved (the language varies and mean slightly different things per perspective, but let's just settle on those commonly understood terms).  This research began by looking at infants, and then mothers and infants.  John Bowlby and his colleague, Mary Ainsworth, are the biggest players here although they were supported by many, we go over this history in much more detail in other episodes on our podcast.
  • The science later incorporated research from adults with retrospective stories about their early life experiences that validated and expanded the theory.  Mary Main, Carol George, Patricia Crittendon (we are wildly fortunate that several luminary's listed below have been expert guests on our show. Crittendon has 2, and 1 devoted to expanding on her work) are leaders in this area, and Alan Sroufe and his team at the University of Minnesota extended and clarified these ideas by following a cohort from infancy through adulthood (our good fortune includes many of those mentioned in these notes – and there are 2 interviews with Sroufe in our podcast catalog). Sroufe's work validates that early experience sets a developmental trajectory to adulthood, but – fortunately – are changeable.
  • Social scientists expanded the ideas by looking at adult romantic couples. They also confirmed that early attachment patterns are not totally correlated with adult functioning, and exemplify how. See R. Chris Fraley, Hazan and Shaver and many more.
  • Modern attachment science also incorporates the explosion of neuroscience that began to grow in the 1990s.  It has always been a biologically informed theory, but with interpersonal neuroscience, we can now literally see inside the developmental process and fine-tune and verify the evolving theory as go.  With contributions from the likes of Dan Siegel (2 TU episodes in our catalog), Alan Shore, Bruce Perry (1 episode), Steve Porges (1 episode), Lou Cossolino (2 TU episodes), Ed Tronik, David Elliott (2 TU episodes), Dan Brown (1 in-depth episode), Dan Stern, … and a boatload of clinicians and scientists we bring this theory forward again with confidence of the tenants of the theory.  Other huge players in expanding modern attachment from scientists to therapists to a more general population include Stan Tatkin (2 episodes), Bonnie Badenoch (1 episode), Tina Payne-Bryson (2 episodes),  Deb Dana (1 episode), Bruce Ecker (1 episode), Kristin Neff (1 episode)
  • Alan Schore first coined the term “Modern Attachment,”  and has published and taught extensively on this topic.  His focus on the importance of the early right-to-right brain unconscious dance between the primary caregiver and child, affective co-regulation, and the development of the implicit sense of self led the way to integrate burgeoning neuroscience with attachment theory. His work continues and is revered.  It is also highly complex, even for seasoned therapists.
  • Your hosts of Therapist Uncensored, Sue Marriott and Ann Kelley amplify the cumulative and highly complex science above and translate it so the life-changing theory and research is available to those who would not otherwise know about it, or what to do with it. We focus specifically on the clinical and real-life application so the theory becomes useful to a wide range of people, in and out of therapy or universities.  We developed the Modern Attachment- Spectrum as a model to help convey these ideas.
  • Ann and Sue also specifically move away from a focus on disorder and pathology to a more compassionate, and accurate, focus on adaptation.  Symptoms as solutions.  They have also added a specific focus on context, including culture, power, race and class perspectives so that the unconscious white Western bias of a theory that is over 70 years old can be recognized.  This model will continually update as new perspectives emerge, and they invite reflection on attachment theory from any marginalized group perspective.

    Click above to join us!

More on the evolving understanding of the mind and relationships and modern attachment

  • Importantly, our brains double in size very quickly after birth, and all that growth is constantly shaped and changed by our interactions. Your felt sense of your body learns am I safe, is my environment safe, and is my caregiver safe.When those early experiences with the caregiver go well, you’ll always have a healthy network hardwired into your body.
  • Fortunately, no matter who you are and at any age, your mental models aren't set in stone – they definitely can change. Deep personal exploration and new safe bottom-up emotional experiences can literally re-wire your brain, change your mind… and help build a new, healthy attachment system. 

Let’s talk about online therapy (ok so we got distracted… sorry 🙂

  • Online therapy is hard. It’s hard on the therapist just as much as it’s hard on the client. Neither person can feel as deeply the body based reactions that are so key to our non-verbal communication
  • So what can we do about it? And how do we integrate modern attachment theory into an online environment? Try embracing the differences of an online environment instead of trying to ignore them. Experiment with different camera set ups and feedback techniques to really ensure as deep of an interpersonal connection as you can. Pick different words to describe emotions and feelings. Or try making more explicit asks of each other during your session.
  • All in all, be true to yourself and take risks to explore the new online environment, and continue to be patient with yourself and the world around you

More content like this on Therapist Uncensored podcast:

brain neuroscience, amygdala, course

It's Not Me It's My Amygdala – Advanced Course Connecting the Sciences of the Mind to Everyday Relationships

FOUR hours of quality content and 3 CE's available to professionals. Since you are this deep into our shownotes, then you are indeed one of our peeps and thus invited to be part of our clan 🙂 GET 10% off this signature course by using code OURCLAN!  –

And tons of free episodes:

TU79: Attachment Spectrum and the Nervous System, Quick Review with Updates

TU79: Attachment Spectrum and the Nervous System, Quick Review with Updates

Neuroscience of Psychotherapy Episode 36, with guest Dr. Lou Cozolino

It’s Not Crazy It’s a Solution to an Unsolvable Problem – Disorganized Attachment Episode 61

Recent Episodes

LIVE from KUYA Wellness: A Discussion on Secure Relating & Tough Conversations (248)

LIVE from KUYA Wellness: A Discussion on Secure Relating & Tough Conversations (248)

Alongside Pam Benson Owens, Ann and Sue explore a variety of topics with a live audience at the KUYA Wellness center in Austin, TX. Referencing their book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World, they delve into the neuroscience behind relationships, discussing attachment styles and emotional regulation, and emphasize the importance of creating safe spaces for dialogue. They highlight the significance of understanding generational trauma and the complexities of navigating relationships in a diverse society. Through personal stories and insightful discussions, they shine a light on the power of self-awareness, encouraging listeners to explore their own emotional landscapes with compassion and curiosity. Learn how creating safe spaces for open dialogue can deepen connections, while understanding the role of pauses and curiosity in everyday conversations.

read more
New Frontiers of Adult ADHD James Ochoa (247)

New Frontiers of Adult ADHD James Ochoa (247)

James Ochoa and co-host Sue Marriott explore the different subtypes of ADHD, and the impact on adults who are navigating a diagnosis later in life. As an ADHD expert, Ochoa shares insights on the emotional and mental stress that accompanies ADHD, as well as provides different techniques for managing symptoms. With an emphasis on the importance of self-care, communication, and personalized strategies, he provides resources and training for adults with ADHD, professionals who work with ADHD clients, and family members of individuals with ADHD.

read more
Challenging Defenses: An Introduction to Experiential Dynamic Therapies (EDTS): (246)

Challenging Defenses: An Introduction to Experiential Dynamic Therapies (EDTS): (246)

Sue Marriott and Ann Kelley discuss Experiential Dynamic Therapies (EDTs) with experts Margaret Martin and Dr. Deb Pollack. These therapies focus on recognizing and challenging defenses that lead to
problems both internally and relationally. Learn the difference between defenses that feel right (Egosyntonic) and those that don’t (Egodystonic) and why it’s important to work against them for change. This episode is a deep dive into the role of EDTS in couples’ therapy, and highlights the need for an integrated approach to address underlying trauma, plus much more!

read more
Liberating Marginalized Couples from Relational and Systemic Trauma with Akilah Riley-Richardson (245)

Liberating Marginalized Couples from Relational and Systemic Trauma with Akilah Riley-Richardson (245)

Sue Marriott and Akilah Riley Richardson dive into a compelling discussion about the vital need to center marginalized voices in therapy. They explore how Western perspectives have shaped therapy practices globally, often overlooking diverse cultural approaches. Akilah brings a fresh, challenging perspective to the table. She pushes for a real shake-up in how we approach therapy, especially when working with marginalized couples. It’s not just about tweaking existing methods – she’s calling for a fundamental rethinking of our assumptions.
The conversation tackles some heavy topics, from unpacking the concept of relational privilege to developing strategies that help couples see beyond their individual struggles to the bigger picture of systemic trauma. It’s eye-opening stuff.  What really stands out is their focus on the deep impact of systemic trauma. They don’t just acknowledge it – they dig into why it’s so crucial for therapists to truly understand and address it in their work.
Ultimately, this discussion isn’t just academic. It’s a call to action for therapists to step up, broaden their perspectives, and find new ways to help couples break free from systemic constraints. It’s about empowering relationships and, in the process, maybe changing the face of therapy itself. Get it ad-free: www.therapistuncensored.com/join Go to shownotes www.therapistuncensored.com/tu245.

read more
Therapeutic Psychedelics: Discernment, Science, and the Need for Theory with Nigel Denning (244)

Therapeutic Psychedelics: Discernment, Science, and the Need for Theory with Nigel Denning (244)

Australia is ahead of the US when it comes to legalizing psychedelics, so we can learn from their experience as it rolls out. Exploration of psychedelic-assisted therapy – the efficacy, skepticism, and the future of state-change therapeutics with Nigel Denning. shownotes: www.therapistuncensored.com/tu244 www.therapistuncensored.com/join

read more
Improv: Fostering Connection in Challenging Conversations (243)

Improv: Fostering Connection in Challenging Conversations (243)

Dr. Ann Kelley and Lisa Kays discuss how improv can deepen conversations around tough topics like race and oppression. They examine white supremacy culture and show how improv values like collaboration, slowing down, and embracing complexity can challenge these norms. Improv fosters creativity, playfulness, and self-reflection to help reduce defensiveness and strengthen relationships in everyday life, at work, or in our closest relationships. By creating a supportive, collaborative environment, improv deepens connections and helps people tap into a wider range of emotions.

read more
Protection or Connection? Neural Pathways & Regulation Basics – Replay (242)

Protection or Connection? Neural Pathways & Regulation Basics – Replay (242)

Everyone is familiar with reacting “in the heat of the moment,” but do we really understand what that means? Regulation basics include the protection or connection pathways to interpersonal relating. With the high tension we’re experiencing in the world today, it can feel particularly challenging to practice secure relating. We are re-sharing one of our impactful episodes where Ann Kelley and Sue Marriott explore the inner workings of our nervous system auto-pilot settings: protection vs connection.

read more
Journey to Self-Discovery: Navigating Identity & Mental Health as a Korean American Immigrant Hyeseung Song (241)

Journey to Self-Discovery: Navigating Identity & Mental Health as a Korean American Immigrant Hyeseung Song (241)

Dr. Ann Kelley and Hyeseung Song, a first-generation Korean American discuss Hyeseung’s experiences growing up as an Asian minority in America, touching on topics like racial stereotypes, assimilation, and the model minority myth .Hyeseung shares her journey of finding her voice and identity, highlighting the mental health challenges of navigating between cultures.

read more
Addiction, Attachment & the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model with Jan Winhall – Replay (240)

Addiction, Attachment & the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model with Jan Winhall – Replay (240)

Enjoy this replay episode with Jan Winhall, as we explore how our bodies can guide us towards healing and growth through the
concept of “felt sense.” This approach integrates neuroscience and focuses on our innate ability to perceive and respond to our experiences. Winhall’s work challenges conventional views on navigating challenges influenced by culture and trauma.

read more
Episode Swap: Secure Relating with Ann & Sue on The Baffling Behavior Show (239)

Episode Swap: Secure Relating with Ann & Sue on The Baffling Behavior Show (239)

One of the many incredible aspects of this community are the people we are able to connect and learn with, like Robyn Gobbel.
She is a licensed social worker, podcast host, keynote speaker, writer, trainer & consultant – and even host launch this spring. This episode, Ann and Sue joined her on her podcast, “The Baffling Behavior Show”, to talk about secure relating.

read more
Managing Intense Feelings for Kids and Grownups with Lindsey Kealey (Replay) – (238)

Managing Intense Feelings for Kids and Grownups with Lindsey Kealey (Replay) – (238)

As our schedules shift for summer, we think revisiting this episode with expert Lindsey Kealey is the perfect reminder. The warmer weather is great for vacations or some weekend fun in the sun, but we also know that the shift in schedule can be tough for parents and children. Little minds can have big feelings and in the spirit of secure relating, we are taking the opportunity to revisit strategies for teaching kids how to regulate their emotions and promote positive connection with others. Lindsey Kealey introduces a trauma-informed program grounded in neuroscience, employing social-emotional learning and problem-solving techniques to enhance decision-making and relational well-being. Through her Three C’s approach – connect, calm, and collaborate – she aims to revolutionize interpersonal dynamics, empowering individuals to interact more positively with themselves and others.

read more
Security Individually, Relationally, and in Community with Ann & Sue 3 of 3 (237)

Security Individually, Relationally, and in Community with Ann & Sue 3 of 3 (237)

This is our final part where we lean into the last section of the book to help us all build a deeper connection, Moving from individual to interpersonal and then societal levels, we discuss the complexities of human connection. Ann and Sue touch on leadership and the need for nuance in navigating today’s challenges while aiming to expand beyond just the Western lens. Whether it be with your partner or even how you navigate your community – building security helps us find a state of curiosity, openness, and wonder.

read more

What else do you want to learn today?

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This